Condo-ing is the process of selecting, viewing, and renting a condo in Thailand. Ups, downs, and in-betweens. The following is a guest post on the Real Thai Problems site. The events are real and have not been embellished in any way.
If you have your own Real Thai Problem that you would like to bring into the light, please contact us here.
Renting property in a foreign country can either go smoothly or be a nightmare. I have personally rented 7 different condos long-term in Thailand. I have found that the region in which you are renting and the people involved in the process will affect the experience.
You will also be viewed by the local people and professionals that you will interact with differently depending on where you are in Thailand. For example, I have rented condos in Bangkok and Pattaya. I can share that in Bangkok both landlords and realtors are far more professional and treat you with respect. I believe this is because they come from a different background (educated) and assume that since you are in Bangkok, you must be there as an expat or for business, so you also must have a prestigious background.
Pattaya however, is very different. Many residents are not well educated and to be fair, many of the farangs living there have similar backgrounds with respect to their home country population. A farang in Pattaya is viewed as a person who came into undeserved wealth (or a pension) and should be parted from it by any means possible. I have observed different attempts at deception and crookery by real estate professionals in Pattaya that I have not seen in Bangkok. I will give a few examples of my rental experiences.
In reality, Pattaya is one of the many tourist traps around Thailand and the globe. Any foreigner within those areas is seen as fair game. They can and will be exploited by some residents.
Things to Note
- Rental agreements in Thailand are legally binding
- By law, the Thai version of the agreement is the one that counts
- Get your lease in both Thai and English with a direct translation of each item (directly underneath), not a separate document.
- security deposits are not held in escrow accounts, nor will your landlord pay you interest on the amount
- many landlords will keep the utilities in their name in order to maintain control over the unit
- many landlords and buildings charge a surcharge for the utilities (be sure to check how much this will be)
- Thai utility companies will cut you off after a very short period of time when no payment has been made
Best Experience
I had my first condo rental experience in Bangkok. Renting this condo was incredibly easy, I later found out I was very lucky to have found such a deal both in terms of the quality of the property itself and the landlord. The owner was a very nice Thai person and we transitioned from a 1 or 2-month AirBNB arrangement to a 1-year lease. I met a realtor online and had her draft a lease agreement to be thorough. I ended up renting the property for 4 years without any issues. I used the same agent to find me a second condo in Bangkok and have had 2 years of leasing (about to be 3) that has been perfectly fine. Everyone involved in the process was aware of what the expectations were and the process went smoothly. No trickery or deception. Security deposits were returned.
In Pattaya, I have rented on 6-month terms from property management companies without any issues. The larger companies usually take care of any complaints swiftly and the fees are fixed price. You pay the rent, they hold up their end of the deal, no problem. If you wind up renting from a landlord however things can be very different.
I rented another unit in Pattaya for 2 years on 1-year renewable leases. The initial contract was drafted during the time of COVID and depressed rentals in the resort city. I was able to secure a decent price on the unit in monthly terms, however, my friend encouraged me to leverage “paying up front” for the entire year to get further discounts. I will state right now—this has been a mixed bag for me in terms of benefit/pain ratio. I personally believe at this point, that paying in advance for a full year is NOT a good idea, and I will describe why next.
Worst Practices
I was concerned that although the condo was being managed by a property management company and everyone involved seemed legitimate, once the full-year payment was made, I had no leverage to get anything repaired or fixed. As an example, most Thai people don’t use water heaters for showers. So, they do not notice when the water heater is not working properly. However, having grown up in basically a snowbank I really enjoy my regular hot showers. Hot is a relative term, not well understood by everyone.
When I moved into the unit, there were several deficiencies, one being the water heaters. Both technically “worked” in that, they turned on and increased the temperature of the water about 5 degrees above the groundwater temperature. The landlord and property management company can say, “The water heater works, we aren’t replacing it” and they would be within the guidelines of the lease agreement. Nothing I can do unless I plan to pay for it myself—which dual point water heaters necessary in both bathrooms of this unit would run somewhere around 20,000 THB.
Luckily for me, I had not paid yet. I put down a security deposit and the first month’s rent but refused to pay the remainder until everything was fixed. This included the sliding glass door, air conditioners, appliances, etc. Keep in mind, I had some leverage because it was COVID. Initially when I moved into the unit, basically nothing worked right. Upon everything being repaired, I paid the full year in advance. The next year of renting was smooth and unfortunately, at that point, the owner decided to sell the unit and the buyer kicked me out.
I Want to Stay Here
A few things to note here: usually in rental agreements any repairs (‘necessary’) which are outlined and it’s a bit grey in excess of 2000 THB shall be paid by the landlord, everything else is on you, and if the owner decides to sell the unit, they may retain the option to boot you out of it, however, must return any future rent paid and compensate you I believe for a months rent. It’s best to check all these things out with each company as agreements can be different.
I solicited the same realtor (an independent agent) to find me another condo, and this is happening now in 2023, not 2020. I was adamant about staying in the building I was in, so we started looking for units there. None to be found I was told, “It’s high season” so everyone is snatching up all these units. This statement in and of itself is loaded. The high season in Thailand is roughly Nov-March when most of the tourists from Western countries visit. The building in which I rent does not allow short-term leases (anything less than a year)—and most buildings are like this. Most of the tourists that visit Thailand in the “high season” stay several months at most. So you’re telling me, that these people are signing 1 year leases and paying for 9 unused months (as you can’t sublease)? No way, I don’t believe it.
Independent Agent
My independent agent was working with a real estate management company in front of my building, which due to its office proximity, gets most of the contracts for the units in my building, but it’s not to say that everyone uses them. I contacted several other agents and started finding that there were units available, but listed by other real estate companies. My agent was conveniently not finding these units somehow. So we went from no units available to a bunch of units available pretty quickly and started viewing them.
Due to the uptick in tourism, inflation, and I’m sure, partly trying to recover losses from COVID, landlords have been asking ridiculous amounts for some of the units in the building. I was not willing to pay these high sums for units that I considered to be inferior, so we kept looking and finally found a 1-bed unit for a decent price. We went to look at the unit and I exchanged some important information with my agent that was ignored. It’s important to point out here that in this case, my agent spoke fluent English and was pregnant. These are two important factors that affected what happened.
A Yearly Discount
When we were viewing the unit, I told her, “I sort of like this unit, if we proceed forward with it, I would like to see if we can get a discount by offering to pay the full year in advance. If I choose to do this, we need to have the same procedure we did for the last unit, where I’m able to live in it for about a week to identify all the deficiencies before I pay the full sum. I could pay 3 months rent (first/last/security) and then spend a few days or a week in the unit, and if everything checks out, then we pay the rest of the sum.” I then mentioned this again, “Yeah, this unit is okay, but like I say, if I rent it I need to make sure everything works fine before I pay in full.” She acknowledged that she understood what I said.
I had her contact the listing agent to see what we could do with the price for the unit. While this was taking place, I walked down through the lobby to get lunch and saw other real estate agents with potential renters going to view the same unit. There seemed to be a lot of activity around the unit, so I called my agent and told her to press on with it and get some answers as we might lose it.
Contributing Factors
I was also sick during this period, with conjunctivitis and COVID-19 both. Not feeling well at all, and I work nights, so I don’t get up early. The following morning around 9 or 10 AM (equivalent to your 4 AM) I was woken by missed phone calls and messages. I opened my crusty blurry eyes I could barely see and saw text messages from her saying we need to put a deposit down now, as multiple people are interested in renting the unit. I have had this happen multiple times in Pattaya, where these agents I feel are playing with you and pushing you to rent a unit (there are always tons of people)—but in this case, I physically saw it so I believed we should act quickly.
I assumed everything was good, so I deposited 1 month’s rent into her account, which apparently, she then transferred to the listing agent, which was then given to the owner. I went back to sleep and when I woke up later that afternoon, I texted my realtor on Line and asked if everything was good. She said yes, and that I needed to pay the full amount now for the year.
I said, wait—we agreed, I want to stay in there a week first, or at least a few days to verify that everything is OK before I do this. My agent now contacted the listing agent, who said the owner says this is not possible. Either I pay right now in full or he’s keeping my deposit and that’s that.
The Aftermath
I was NOT happy about this and had several phone calls with my agent. She not only threw me under the bus, saying that I had “ok’d” the rental deposit payment and terms at 9 AM when I was half awake, so that means it’s my fault, but also she went back through Line and started cutting pasting parts of conversations where I said “ok” or something to this effect. Clearly, I can’t go back and cut/paste the conversation that we had in the unit where she clearly understood what I told her. She was pregnant, gave birth around the time this was all going down, and made a mistake. There’s a concept in Thailand of ‘saving face’, when Thai people make mistakes, they will NEVER admit to it. Even if it’s right there, in the open, they can do no wrong, and they are shameless.
My realtor told me to my face, that it was all MY fault this happened, and went as far as to say I deserved to lose my deposit and she agreed with the owner. This is completely unacceptable behavior from a client-service provider relationship. The client is always right (and in this case, actually was right). I contacted my attorney and found out, that without any paperwork to back up the deposit and terms, I was basically screwed. I could go to court and fight for it, but it would be such an ordeal the best option was to send a legal threat and see how the owner responds. I contacted the listing agent and told them what happened, they said the owner doesn’t care and is keeping the unit because they lost the ability to rent it (with so many other viewings). Turns out, the owner rented it anyway the following day. He’s a farang, a liar, and a piece of crap. Remember all this took place the DAY the deposit had been put down, not even 12 hours elapsed. Any decent person who understood what happened would have given it back. The world is full of scum.
Moving On
With this issue behind us, I immediately fired my agent and found another company to represent me. This time, I did not go with an ‘independent’ agent but a larger company. I wound up finding and renting another unit in the building that was much more expensive, but worth its value. The process went smoothly and I am in it today with no problems, renting month-to-month.
Hidden Gems
Another interesting thing that happened is I had a discussion with the lady who works in the building and cleans everyone’s units (and does laundry). She asked why I rented such a big, expensive unit and I told her the story. She told me two interesting things: one, the wife of the scumbag landlord that screwed me out of my deposit was her friend, and two: there were a number of other units available in the building that are not managed by or listed with real estate companies. She knew about them and could have got me a great deal if I had spoken to her.
One Last Dig at Me
One last interesting piece of the story. When I moved out of my old unit and needed to turn in the keys and do an inspection for my security deposit, my agent did not show (of course). After we had a falling out, there was no way she would be present. The property management company showed up and the woman had some interesting fees on the checkout list. She claimed I was responsible for paying to clean air conditioners, etc. I believe the total sum was over 3000 THB. She also let slip, that the new owner was her friend. I asked several times, “Are you sure that I need to pay for the air conditioners to be cleaned?” she replied, “Of course, this is standard. I have been doing this for a very long time, and everyone has to pay for AC cleaning. Trust me.”
Of course, I have rented many units and never have paid for AC cleaning. I went and grabbed a copy of my lease agreement and thumbed through it. Nowhere in this agreement did it say I had to pay for AC cleaning. I asked her again, “Are you sure?”, she said “Yes, everyone pays. Not that big of a deal, just pay it and you’ll get your security deposit back.” So I let a little time pass and then sent her a message on Line asking where exactly in the lease agreement it states that I need to pay for AC cleaning. About an hour passed and she abruptly replied, “You don’t need to pay it. Your deposit has been returned.”
In Summary
So to sum all of this up, if you are planning to rent in Thailand, please learn from my mistakes:
- Don’t use independent agents, stick with a bigger company and you’ll get better results
- If you do use independent agents, vet them carefully, they are not all bad, but be sure to check their history, and ask for references
- Make sure everything is in writing—meaning, things like requesting a few days to occupy the unit before paying in advance for a full year
- Never transfer money (deposits or anything) without a document signed with the terms and conditions of the deposit. When you put a deposit down on a house in the States, there’s an option fee, etc. It’s all spelled out, if you decide to back out, you lose $200 or whatever, not the full sum.
- The agents will always tell you a property is hot and you need to act now, don’t be manipulated, and don’t rush. Again, I only see this type of behavior in Pattaya.
- Pattaya agents can be crooked, don’t pay for “AC cleaning fees” or anything else that’s not spelled out in your lease agreement—make sure you understand what you are responsible for upon signing this agreement
- If you’re going to go down the ‘pay in advance for a discount’ road, make sure you’ve got everything covered in writing, at this point I don’t think the discount is worth the headache
- Make sure the agent does a comprehensive inventory list and takes photos of EVERYTHING deficient in the unit with them present, prior to paying. This means, scratches in floors, paint, furnishings, etc.
- To add to this, when I moved into my unit I already had balcony furniture and dishes/plates/silverware of my own. The property management company brought all these things and I requested them to REMOVE these items from the unit as I did not need them. This information was ‘lost’ in the inventory list, i.e., the items were there in the list, with my initials next to them, however, they weren’t in the unit. I ‘got lucky’ in not having to pay for patio furniture and dishes that I never had, but the situation could have easily gone the other way.
- If you make changes on the fly, make sure it’s well documented.
- Don’t get too chatty/friendly texting with your agent, as they will turn around, take bits out of context, and use it against you when push comes to shove; I prefer to keep everything in emails that are professional and well written, or in voice conversations over the phone.
- Remember, Thais, save face, they can never be wrong when a mistake happens, so it’s going to be your fault. Become an expert at collecting and documenting evidence to pin their ass to the problem without any question. Then, just like my AC cleaning fee, things will resolve quickly.
- Talk to the cleaning/laundry lady in the building about units available. They know everything about that building.
- I’ve had more/better success with Thai landlords than foreigners, take that for what it’s worth, but you’re probably better off with a Thai.
